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Author Topic: Testing ENvironment - Thinking ahead  (Read 9935 times)
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Zhrakkan
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« on: May 10, 2006, 04:27:45 pm »

Hey all..I know this is a future issue
Since I am a completely useless programmer...
I will volunteer, getting a test environment setup with requirements and the like.

I am volunteering myself to help setup test requirements for each release.

I can setup using VMware a number of Windows environments and the like.  Plus get others, (who are on a Testing Team like I am volunteering for) to setup theirs the same way..

This way we can report successes and failure on issues...

Thoughts?
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Arantor
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« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2006, 05:42:09 pm »

Testing environments I'd like to see:

Win9x/ME (I'm running and developing on Win98 SE so that'll be OK, although Win95 is not required)
Win2000
WinXP
Mac OS X

Linux/Unix will be the hard one because there are so many variations on it... I think we'll have to consider that one later.
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Zhrakkan
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« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2006, 06:33:54 pm »

Quote from: Arantor
Testing environments I'd like to see:

Win9x/ME (I'm running and developing on Win98 SE so that'll be OK, although Win95 is not required)
Win2000
WinXP
Mac OS X

Linux/Unix will be the hard one because there are so many variations on it... I think we'll have to consider that one later.
Of course all the flavors were dependent on us having a version supported on that platform of course...
But I can spearhead Windows if that is needed...
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« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2006, 07:09:36 pm »

CE itself was Windows only, although it could be coerced to run under Unix with WINE. As the majority of users will be coming from a Windows background, I think it makes sense - if not ideal - to do the initial testing under Windows.

The ideal of course is to have one codebase which compiles cleanly across the platforms and we can wider testing.
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« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2006, 07:20:05 pm »

I really am looking forward to the growth of this project.
WOO HOO
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hoeltgman
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« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2006, 07:45:32 pm »

I do have an old computer with Win95 somewhere... Could it test there in case it was needed....
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« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2006, 04:56:45 am »

I can test on Mac OS X if you need me to. I have access to 10.3 and 10.4 systems (which are the only major iterations of the OS that are still commonly used). I'm fairly well-versed in programming (Java, C, PHP, Ruby, Obj-C) and I've dabbled in C++ but haven't done any major work in it (though I can read the code and understand it).
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« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2006, 08:33:15 pm »

Quote from: daemon
I can test on Mac OS X if you need me to. I have access to 10.3 and 10.4 systems (which are the only major iterations of the OS that are still commonly used). I'm fairly well-versed in programming (Java, C, PHP, Ruby, Obj-C) and I've dabbled in C++ but haven't done any major work in it (though I can read the code and understand it).
I'll second this.  Very similar to daemon I'm a Mac OS X user, also with access to 10.3 and 10.4 systems, primarily a web-language programmer (Perl, PHP, Ruby etc), and dabbling in more "hardcore" languages (Obj-C, C++).  I've been looking for a project to join in order to further pursue Mac programming, and am currently interested in this one.  At this point, however, I can only commit to being a Beta Tester until after I get some Real Life(TM) issues sorted out.
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Zhrakkan
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« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2006, 08:39:27 pm »

Quote from: awmyhr
Quote from: daemon
I can test on Mac OS X if you need me to. I have access to 10.3 and 10.4 systems (which are the only major iterations of the OS that are still commonly used). I'm fairly well-versed in programming (Java, C, PHP, Ruby, Obj-C) and I've dabbled in C++ but haven't done any major work in it (though I can read the code and understand it).
I'll second this.  Very similar to daemon I'm a Mac OS X user, also with access to 10.3 and 10.4 systems, primarily a web-language programmer (Perl, PHP, Ruby etc), and dabbling in more "hardcore" languages (Obj-C, C++).  I've been looking for a project to join in order to further pursue Mac programming, and am currently interested in this one.  At this point, however, I can only commit to being a Beta Tester until after I get some Real Life(TM) issues sorted out.
Damn Real Life(TM) really sucks!  Always gets in the way.
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« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2006, 09:22:13 pm »

Re: Linux development and testing...

Recently the 'Free Standards Group' released version 3.1 of their Linux Standard Base.  This version is supposed to provide standards for application developers.  i.e. if you follow the standard your app will successfully run in Gnome and KDE across multiple distributions.  Of course, thats still going to take time, but it seems to have the support of a number of major distributions/developers so I think it may be worthwhile to look into it.  http://freestandards.org/en/LSB
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« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2006, 09:29:43 pm »

Quote from: Feldon
Re: Linux development and testing...

Recently the 'Free Standards Group' released version 3.1 of their Linux Standard Base.  This version is supposed to provide standards for application developers.  i.e. if you follow the standard your app will successfully run in Gnome and KDE across multiple distributions.  Of course, thats still going to take time, but it seems to have the support of a number of major distributions/developers so I think it may be worthwhile to look into it.  http://freestandards.org/en/LSB
That is a great idea Feldon.  If the Free Standards Group is pretty well accepted, that could be the platform in which we test Linux installations on.
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« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2006, 09:46:04 pm »

Alright, been doing some more reading on the LSB 3.1.  The quote below is my limited understanding of whats going on.  I'm sure I'm oversimplifying or may even be completely incorrect, so if someone else could look into it that would be great, lol.

Quote
The current linux desktop environment has people using a number of toolkits for building linux applications.  The two most popular seem to be Qt and GTK+.  Generally speaking, GTK is the base for Gnome development, while Qt is the base for KDE development.

This new version of the LSB is the first version to actually include some of these development libraries as part of the standard.  Since neither Gnome or KDE are ready to decide on a single set of development libraries, the LSB 3.1 simply includes both Qt and gtk libraries as part of the standard.  While this may seem pointless, what I THINK it means is that anyone developing for Ubuntu, Red Hat Linux, Novell Suse or any other distribution claiming LSB 3.1 status must use the gtk or qt libraries.
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« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2006, 09:48:11 pm »

I interpret that same as you I believe, but I am not the Linux officianado.
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« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2006, 10:12:32 pm »

Here's a convo I had on #kde-devel
Quote
I'm thinking about developing an application for the Linux desktop (i.e. Gnome and KDE and across distributions).  What does the LSB 3.1 mean for me?  Is it basically saying I should be using only Qt or gtk libaries, or what?
Feldon: LSB is for [independent software vendor] that wants to have a set of libraries they are guaranted to find.  If your app is open source, just don't bother because it would make its way into distros.  If your app is proprietary then non LSB libraries would have to provided or linked statically, unless you target a specific distribution, say RHEL.
So an ISV would be forced to use Qt or GTK because other 'toolkit libaries' wouldn't necessarily be pre-installed with an LSB 3.1 compliant distribution?
Not forced. Just that he could assume they are installed on a LSB 3.1.
Otherwise, if they used something other than gtk/qt they would probably have to provide those libaries with their software?
exactly
and if you're app were open source, then presumably any distro that picked up your app would ensure the libaries it required would also be picked up
exactly, LSB is not for open source developpers
I suppose, however, that if you stuck with gtk/qt, then you wouldn't have to worry about your development libraries crashing on a particular distribution.  They would be guaranteed to work without testing so long as the distro was lsb 3.1 compliant.
"guaranteed" is a fuzzy term.  The distribution might be Fedora, in which case all bets are not only off, but in another country, becauase a library like Qt has so many patches that it crashes when you breathe the wrong way. And the LSB doesn't require that these libraries actually work.  So when, for example, Debian applies a patch that makes gamma correction not be disableable such that image maps are incorrect, so that the program becomes unusable ... well, the LSB doesn't prevent that.
njaard: Presumably this is something that will have to be improved over time.  What would be the good of setting up gtk/qt as a standard for all ISV's, but then saying its ok if a particular distribution breaks those libraries? hehe
from what I can tell, a distro could ship an empty libqt-mt.so and be LSB compliant
So I guess the story is that LSB is great, but still needs time to mature.  Which isn't that surprising considering that 3.1 was out at the end of April, lol.

Now the LSB 3.1 apparently actually provides the binaries for Qt/GTK.  However, given that we still have to test across multiple distributions/desktop environments anyways, there may not be much point to limiting ourselves to Qt/GTK.  So whatever, I guess, just do our own thing.

***********

Back to Linux testing in general.  I would recommend testing in Gnome and KDE on Debian 3.1 or some other debian based distro, in Suse, and in Fedora and/or Red Hat.  I would also consider testing on Gentoo and Slackware.
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« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2006, 10:18:47 pm »

That is a very strange reply by him.
Why would you create a "standard" but say, open-source should not use it?

That to me is insane....
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