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Author Topic: C or C/C++ or C++  (Read 17317 times)
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alpha
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« on: April 28, 2006, 12:32:20 am »

It looks like most people want to use C/C++, but now the question is do we want to use both c and c++ or just c++? What about OOA and OOD if we use C++ with OOP.
Should we talk about design patterns? What about a class model?

Markus Schulz
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Arantor
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« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2006, 12:36:55 am »

I've been quite hesitant to put my foot into either camp specifically, and have tended to label it just "C/C++" for now, to represent the entire C community.

I'm still learning C++ at the moment, so I'm not exactly the best person to ask. If we start getting into the realms of C++, we will almost certainly look at object-oriented programming methodologies, but a lot of the code I've written before was not OOP type code, not even the Visual Basic I used to write.

I get the feeling, though, that a lot of the workings of the underlying technologies (Scintilla, wxWidgets) work more effectively in a C++ context.
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Derek Parnell
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« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2006, 01:46:56 am »

Just to mix it up a bit, I would like to consider using the D programming language.  

  http://www.digitalmars.com/d/

There are a number of very active news groups ...
  nttp://news.digitalmars.com

In short, D is like C++ but without the productivity-sapping features. It is almost as fast without special tweaks and can be just as fast if you want it to be. The code is just so much simplier to read and write and it has unittest and design-by-contract functionality built-in.

I don't want to start a language war here, I'm just offering the opportunity for us to think about other reasonable alternatives to C++.
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« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2006, 02:01:00 am »

I did go and have a look at D, and I've been thinking about taking the plunge for a while now.

For EE, my main concern is whether we'd be able to include Scintilla/wxWidgets into a D program (as discussed elsewhere, these are likely to be major components). The debate over cross-platform coding will also rise up with D.

It's also a relatively new language, at least compared to C or C++, and I haven't heard many people comment on it.

But I'm open to the idea - if more people are interested in D, maybe we can look at it, but linking to wxWidgets and/or Scintilla is pretty much required.
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alpha
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« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2006, 02:52:12 am »

It looks like if you understand C/C++ - D should not be a big problem. I also think that a lot of people just would not join the project if it was not C/C++.  But if we could get the D community to join and make EE the official D source code editor as well, may we had enough good programmers. But I don't see that happen, unfortunately I'm not the best C++ programmer my self. In the last couple of years I got used to all the nice little features modern programming languages have.

Markus Schulz

PS:  I like nice little features like the GC in D Smiley This would keep me out of a lot of trouble - haha
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« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2006, 06:16:16 am »

For wxwidgets, see http://wxd.sf.net

For scintilla, see projects like Leds or Poseidon that make use of it.

www.dsource.org/projects/leds
www.dsource.org/projects/poseidon
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« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2006, 08:01:41 am »

Hi EE devos! I'm a long time CE user and Derek, my D community buddy, led me here. Can I be of service? I would be happy to dive in and help, so long as EE decides on D as the development platform. Otherwise, I could... applaud your efforts? (C++ is not my cup of tea)
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« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2006, 11:08:19 am »

Hello,

D is, in fact, a very good language, which will make you really productive and more motivated to continue working on Emerald Editor after months of work.

Addressing some issues that were raised: D is cross-platform. I have used D compilers on Windows and Mac OS and I'm sure Linux is no problem either. There might be some minor issues that you'll have to take care, because of differences between GDC and DMD compilers. The language itself is highly portable, more than C and C++, which leave several details undefined.

http://www.digitalmars.com/d/portability.html

D can interface to C code directly, for C++ (Scintilla?) you'll have to write a C wrapper first. It's been done before, so it's feasible, but it's extra work.

Good luck for your project, and have fun!
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Arantor
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« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2006, 12:28:13 pm »

I get the feeling that moving from C/C++ to D isn't too difficult. I'm not a fluent programmer in any of them (although in other languages) so I don't really mind where I start.

I also note from the comments that it seems that the majority of users don't really mind how it's built as long as it works, and that it is down to the developers what they use.

D is sounding more and more like a feasible option, the more I read up and understand. But I do acknowledge at the same time that people may be dissuaded from helping development simply because it isn't pure C or C++.

Several people on this forum have already said that they are experienced C/C++ coders, and that is a resource I do not wish to lose, but at the same time development may be quicker, easier and more developed (if that makes sense) by not wasting time with writing our own GC routines, our own File IO routines, etc. when we don't need to.

It also seems it will help with Unicode support as it has dedicated functions (even support for W-functions where Windows 9x doesn't support them), so it is sounding better and better.

I don't want to suddenly switch to D instead of C/C++ (I might if I were the only developer), but leave it to the community to decide.
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dsvick
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« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2006, 01:08:58 pm »

Either way is fine with me. I'm always open  to learning new skills/languages and it would not be all that different from the brushing up on my C/C++ skills I'll need to do. The only set back I can see is that it might be more difficult finding as many already skilled developers if we go with D and would require more work (initially) to get EE up and running.

There is nice sound to being the official editor of the D language though.
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Dave
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« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2006, 02:23:58 pm »

Objective-C? You get 100% C compatibility, additional object-oriented features and easy Mac OS X support.
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SnakE
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« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2006, 03:18:44 pm »

It takes years to get used to a language and to start thinking in a particular language.  I'm personally not going to learn D because of EE.  I'll better learn Lua instead.
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alpha
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« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2006, 04:04:10 pm »

My C/C++ is so rusty that I had spend the same time like to learn D or Objective-C. I just want something to replace CE when the time comes. And EE would be the best solution. I will support this project anyway, whatever language we should use. But we need a least one or two "gurus" in that language on our team. Somebody we can ask for help, somebody that knows that language very well.

Markus Schulz

PS: I think we should vote, just to see how many people like what language .... and how may people would help in that language.
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« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2006, 04:04:48 pm »

Quote from: SnakE
It takes years to get used to a language and to start thinking in a particular language.  I'm personally not going to learn D because of EE.  I'll better learn Lua instead.
That's true, but quite less so for D if you come from a C/C++ background.

I converted a large project from C to D in relatively little time when I was still learning D. You might take some more time to get intimately familiar with templates, mixins and other features not present in C, but for the most part you just quickly get productive with the language and start using it as a better C/C++.
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BlackTea
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« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2006, 04:25:41 pm »

Hey congrads on getting this off the ground!  Long time Crimson Editor user!   As a long time C++ software developer myself, I can contribute somewhat to this project.
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