Emerald Editor Discussion
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Author Topic: where shall we begin?  (Read 20955 times)
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caiyong
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« on: April 25, 2006, 06:30:19 am »

1. Few people in CE's Yahoo Users Groups also expressed interests in contributing to this new project.
2. Where should we discuss the project plan? Here or in a separate discussion board?
3. If it is possible, having a mirror or just registering a simple page in Sourceforge will increase the project's exposure.
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Kamots
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« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2006, 08:19:29 am »

Regarding exposure, do we want a slew of people all trying to contribute or will you try to contain it to a core team that will direct the development. Even though it'll be a clone of Crimson Editor at first, you'll most likely want to start on the most solid foundation you can build which could include Unicode support right from the get-go. These decisions are critical if this project will take off... perhaps after we have a proof-of-concept we can start attracting people to come and develop new things.

PS. Hello! I'm from the Crimson Editor forums and I've been a user for almost 4 years. It's by far one of my favourite editors out there and I will try to help this project as much as I can.
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alidanish22
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« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2006, 11:45:44 am »

We already have our first milestone and i.e making it like CrimsonEditor. JAVA or Qt can make it platform independent while getting support for MFC is easier. There are a lot of MFC experts on www.codeproject.com who will be interested in this project. Moderator can approach/advertise to create a team. As for me I am a experienced software engineer (around 8 years) working for consumer electronics. I also have some knowledge of MFC mainly for making utility or test programs for my project. I can be helpful in design, review and some feature addition.
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dragger201
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« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2006, 12:28:47 pm »

Well..........I'm not a programmer, but I can thrash the hell out of stuff so I am a good tester.  I've been using CE since 2000.....mainly to clear the MS crud when making webpages using MS Word.  So, whatever help I can be, is offered.
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Arantor
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« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2006, 12:37:27 pm »

I will add a seperate section for the project plan, especially roadmap etc.

A SourceForge page is a good idea as, quite rightly pointed out, it will increase exposure. I don't want to rely on SF's services though, as I have a few slightly different features planned for the bug tracker, which aren't in SF, and will be more suited to the project.

Cross platform support is the final result, I think, but I'm really not sure how to go about it. I don't really want to add any dependencies to the project if I can help it.

CE had no obvious external dependencies, but it's not because we're trying to be superior, it's because one of the major selling points was its size. It has already been commented elsewhere that people want to run it from a USB key, which implies they want to run it on the move. Adding libraries (especially static-linked ones) will not help that.

MFC is a valid solution as well, although making it cross platform suddenly becomes more difficult, because it is tied to Windows so closely, and can - from what I've heard - be quite a beast to work with.

As the moderator, I would quite like to see a core team of developers building/testing code, then other developers adding amendments, bugfixes etc as time goes on, and as many people testing it as possible!

I would like to start off with an engine core which has possible Unicode support (not full U-code support initially, but the engine should be able to be expanded with little real effort to do so), then work on the nitty gritty.

So, the question I think we need to first look at is what implementation path we want to use.

In an ideal world, I'd have a core module which covered all the features, and whatever platform independent code I had, then had modules for Windows UI, Linux with GTK, Linux with Qt/KDE, Mac OS X or whatever for the UI.

I don't particularly want to go down the road of making platform independent user interface code (a la Mozilla's XUL system) because I'd rather have a sleeker, smaller system with fewer layers.

I think the C/C++ language is the only way we can go forwards with this, though, I don't see any viable alternative (Java is hampered by the fact that there are several JRE systems, all of which are more than a few MB in size and Java apps have the reputation, sometimes unfairly so, of being sluggish)

I don't think any of the well known toolkits (GTK+, Qt, wxWindows and friends) are particularly applicable here. I'd much rather use Windows UI elements, or X elements for Linux/X (and I don't know about Mac OS X, sorry)

The first milestone is, quite rightly, a working text editor that has no inherent limit on file size (except OS limits), and arbitrary/nearly arbitrary line length (e.g. 32,000 characters per line).

If we thrash out the major hurdles now, it'll be easier in the long term.
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sebastianhutter
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« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2006, 01:02:56 pm »

I'm using Crimson Editor about 4 years and i'll help were i can.

I hope you program it cross plattform from the start, because i'm just using linux at home and only windows at work Smiley.
I posted the idea for the GUI-library wxwidgets (www.wxwidgets.org) a month ago in the crimson board. I think it's cool because you dont
need any extensions to use the programm on a windows computer because the whole thing is statically linked (i dont know if that is the right word).

we should try to make the editor easily extensionable... maybe with an easy script language.
so the core module is in c++
and the extensions (ftp/scp access etc.) are for example in lua or python because they're much better to learn und to programm then c++
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Joe0x7F
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« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2006, 02:41:09 pm »

I'm hesitant to support a cross-platform effort if it makes the editor too big - and it likely will. I like CE because it is small and color codes my REMed out lines and knows where the matching (){}[] are. It have line and column numbers.

i.e., CE fills a niche. If you get out of the niche, then you are likely to lose followers---whether you gain more in the end is unknown, but the probability does not bode well for that given how many other editors there are out there. So, I think you should take a poll of as many people who love CE as you can and try to stay in that niche track.

I mainly do a lot of programming in C/C++ and Java, HTML, and the old DOS/CMD batch file language.
Also, I'm partial to the Apache 2 Open Source license... to throw that out on the table.

Joe


On the other hand, is mono something you can use?

http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page

"Mono provides the necessary software to develop and run .NET client and server applications on Linux, Solaris, Mac OS X, Windows, and Unix. Sponsored by Novell (http://www.novell.com), the Mono open source project has an active and enthusiastic contributing community and is positioned to become the leading choice for development of Linux applications."
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Guest
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« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2006, 02:57:48 pm »

I am a regular user of the good ol' Crimson editor, and in personal opinion it is currently the best text editing app I have ever used, it's simple, basic, scripting support (macros), etc.. it'll be good to see such a great application develop a bit further so that it is better refined and stable (for me it seems that crimson editor is virtually at that level for me).

I am interested to see an open source project to develop a similar equivalent. I understand in development issues the way the current Crimson editor is designed that it's performance and usability is based on Windows modules, It'll be good to see a similar balance of features available on other OS's like linux.

A different application I have seen that has been available on both windows and linux platforms is GAIM, an instant messenger. And I see it perform well on both linux and windows. Perhaps a look into how they have maintained a cross platform availability may open up possibilities of more users taking advatage of such a great application.

I hope emerald editor develops well - most alternatives I've seen are too bloated or not as versatile to use.

Depending on how this project goes, I might even help contribute where I can.

-Colin
 [colinnashonline.com]
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darkhawkdev
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« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2006, 04:40:18 pm »

I'm a software developer and architect with 15 years of experience in the field of lightweight componentized applications, and I'd like to help out with the development as much as I can.

-John
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darkhawkdev
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« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2006, 04:42:58 pm »

I read the response about Mono. It's being used throughout Gnome on Linux right now and is a decent library for cross-platform development. I'd like to suggest at least reviewing the idea.

-John
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nibl
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Posts: 1


« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2006, 05:42:19 pm »

I think we should consider using the Scintilla component, a well featured text editor.

http://www.scintilla.org/

I am also in favour of wxWidgets because it uses the native UI, unlike Qt or other cross-platform solutions. wxWidgets has the Scintilla editor wrapped as a class.

wx apps have a small footprint and are fast. It would be a pity to only program for Windows, especially now that Linux and Mac are becoming more popular.
I use both Linux and Windows.

I imagine most programmers are for C++, but you can also use Python or Perl with wxWidgets. Development can be very rapid and the user cannot tell the difference, except for a 0.5 - 1 second longer launch period. At least that has been my experience.


nibl
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alpha
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« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2006, 05:48:43 pm »

We should make a list with all the features Crimson Editor has, than we should find out how many milestones we need to replicate all the features in Emerald Editor. Than all members should vote witch features are most important (may a vote between 1 to 10 for each feature - 10 is "very important key feature" and 0 is "don't want that"). Than we start with the most important features and work our way down the list ... after we implemented all the features with an importance greater e.g. 3 this we call it Emerald Editor V1.0 and than we ask the community for a second feature list with *NEW* features, than the community will vote again. Than we have Emerald Editor V2.0

Comments and response please...

May someone could make a web base php/mysql voting system?


Markus Schulz

PS: This would be a real democratic software development process ;-)
PPS: Thank you all for not giving up...
PPPS: It would be nice if Emerald Editor could use Crimson Editor Syntax Files directly or at least import Syntax Files form Crimson Editor... may the Emerald Editor Installer could import all the settings from an existing Crimson Editor installation.

PPPPS: also autocompletion or IntelliSense would be a nice feature for the future ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IntelliSense )
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dsvick
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WWW
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2006, 06:04:12 pm »

This all sounds great!!  I used CE for quite a while ventured off to try some others and ended up back with CE. So the idea of continuing it and making it better is quite appealing.

I'm more than willing to help out in any way I can. My C/C++ skills are a bit rusty (6 years) so I might be slow at first Smiley

Let me know how I can help.

Dave
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Dave
bellzuk
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WWW
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2006, 06:52:16 pm »

Although I am an advocate for cross platform (java)/open source etc. I would keep it windows based, fast and light.  Cross platform tends to bloat and slow down apps (especially gui's).  I like CE for its speed and simplicity.

I think that we should put together some basic aims (after platform decision - C# ?), e.g.:
- XML config schemas
- File refs to incl. file:, ftp: and http:  so as to share configs (i.e. make it optionally hot seatable)
- Directory structure
- GUI menu structure
etc. etc.

David
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zet
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Posts: 4


« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2006, 09:23:12 pm »

I am interested in this project.

What I really want to have for an editor is
* Project manager with files
* Project specific tools (for starting specific applications for that project)
* More customizable toolsettings
* Lua scripting

I have used Lua so far in a few scripts. If I ever have to load some configuration files or somewhat like that I would use the lua interpreter. Lua source looks pretty much like a normal ini file format, it has a very well parser if an error occures and other capabilities that comes with scripting languages. It is pretty small (<16000 lines of c code) and quite fast. It is very easy to extend applications with lua scripting support. It also allows to load further DLLs that support additional support (ie. networking, zipfiles, etc.).
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