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Author Topic: Toolbar Icons  (Read 14694 times)
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daemon
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« on: June 02, 2006, 07:38:04 am »

I think it would be good if we could get some ideas for toolbar icons going. I think that the current XPM format is crap so we shouldn't use it. I think we should go with large TIFFs that can be scaled down for other OSes. But OSes of the future like big, shiny, high-quality, shaded-not-outlined images.

Obviously, EE is still a work in progress and we don't know what final images we need yet, but it can't hurt to start thinking about it.
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Arantor
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« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2006, 12:34:04 pm »

Having nice large source images is a nice idea, provided that only the actually-required images made it into that final binary. I agree, a polished interface is a very good idea, but having one so polished it detracts from the main UI is a bad thing IMO, since we are putting together a text editor, not a graphics package...

The current build is a little bland, but workable and non-intrusive.

Maybe theming would be an idea to avoid that, but that is a code feature that I don't think people would be using too much.
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Zhrakkan
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« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2006, 02:12:15 pm »

I cant offer much opinion of the graphics for the pc.

But I must say, I am quite picky on the graphics.  I honestly think, a well thought out, and good looking GUI does draw people as well.  I really think we need to have a great looking gui while the actual programming is done.

Obviously the smaller in physical size is better, thus not needing to load more, but I am way out of my arena on this aspectg as I have NEVER been part of a GUI for a program.
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« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2006, 05:23:21 pm »

I agree that a good looking GUI is a valuable asset but does a text-editor really need toolbar icons any bigger than say 64x64?

IMHO, three sizes should be sufficient to cater to virtually all users needs : small (16x16), medium (32x32) & large (64x64).

My instinctive reaction to the idea of theming is that it will add bulk and reduce speed, but in the spirit of "customizability", would having an icon directory be feasible? ie: that the default icons could be replaced or that a different icon directory be selected, rather than integrating the icons into the executable.
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Arantor
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« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2006, 05:35:45 pm »

An icon directory is feasible, I suppose, but I am thinking of the thumb-drive users etc.

Perhaps it would be feasible to include base images (say 16x16 as per CE, and most Windows apps toolbars), and have icon directories if the user should select it; that way we don't bulk up too much and leave it open for experimentation without making it a dependence at this time. (I'm saying about the inclusion of a default imageset specifically so that if the user is running from a thumbdrive or equivalent, it doesn't have any impact on its usage.)

Do applications use 64x64 icons?  Huh I have seen apps with 32x32 but I find them a bit intrusive, even on a large (1280x1024) desktop.
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Nick
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« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2006, 07:31:47 pm »

Quote
An icon directory is feasible, I suppose, but I am thinking of the thumb-drive users etc.

Sorry, don't quite catch the relevance of what you're saying..? (unless EE is destined to be delievered as a single stand-alone executable file...)

.. and no, I don't think I've seen any app using 64x64 icons (at least not in the toolbar), I guess I'm just trying to say that I like the idea of being able to choose the size of my toolbar icons!  Smiley
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Arantor
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« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2006, 07:38:40 pm »

Well, I think having the option to run the app without any support files should run the minimalist core of EE - that's especially important in the case of thumb-drives (I know size is cheap but still...)

That was why I was getting at being able to run it without any support files - since some users will be trying to cram it into the last few MB on their thumb drives...

Having the ability to load icons from a directory would be cool, though I have to confess I kind of don't really feel the need to theme my apps up too highly. I have a desktop whose sole customisation is that instead of the grey of Windows, I've changed it to a medium azure kind of colour to go with the background picture (an extract from Michael Whelan's "Back Into Hell" painting)

For clarity, I always intended the Windows version to be a single stand-alone executable as the minimum base, with syntaxes and plugins as the only support files - that's why I've been very keen to bang on about static-linking in the build stage.
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awmyhr
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« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2006, 09:32:05 pm »

Let me start by saying I know this much --><-- about graphics design, so I am proudly displaying my ignorance to the world. 

Wouldn't it be best to create the initial images at 128X128 then, as part of the build process, scale them to whatever is the optimum size for that build?  Wouldn't that future proof us w/o being outlandishly large?

Oh, and can I request at least some of the icons have green in them?  Grin
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Nick
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« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2006, 10:09:32 pm »

Yep, I think that it would be unwise to make EE dependant on something like a folder full of its default icons!!

It's not something I want to push the developpers into including but I do think that this kind of thing would be a definite selling point for some, albeit not many, users.

NB : I do just mean the toolbar icons, I'm guessing that re-styling all the GUI components would certainly degrade size and & speed too much for EE's purpose.

awmyhr, unfortunately scaling down the icons from a large size doesn't always work very well (although it depends on the image in question), they'll almost certainly need to be tweaked to keep a nice crisp picture.

... I'm sure there'll be some kind of excuse to fit in a few green icons!  Smiley
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Feldon
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« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2006, 02:54:30 pm »

Lol, I recently noticed that I don't even use my CE toolbar.  I tend to do everything either through the menu bar or with keyboard shortcuts.  So just make sure that like CE, I can hide the toolbar and I'm happy. Smiley
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KjeBja
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« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2006, 07:28:28 am »

I like to see the toolbar icons kept small, as they are in CE. Personally, I prefer not to use the mouse, so I obviously want/need the possibility to use keyboard shortcuts and menues.
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Arantor
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« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2006, 12:13:02 pm »

This is something I suspect a number of people will be doing (I know I only use the New and Open icons on mine, and then only occasionally) so keyboard shortcuts will be paramount here.

Having a nice toolbar will be very useful, though, especially for people that don't want to remember 1,001 keyboard shortcuts, and will help attract some users who like nice GUIs.
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KjeBja
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« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2006, 01:14:19 pm »

I totally agree - having a toolbar is a must. IMO there is no way you can avoid having to use it from time to time. And by all means, a nice GUI is no drawback, so this is definitely something it is worth putting some effort into.
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Matthew1344
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« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2006, 04:36:56 pm »

I *NEVER* use the toolbar in Crimson, though I'm sure I did when I first started using.  I agree that it needs to be there, but disableable (if that's even a word).
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Nick
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« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2006, 04:46:21 pm »

I've just been trying to think how much I use the toolbar too...  not very often!!
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